Fedora KDE 40 plans to completely drop X11

KDE Plasma 6 is successor to KDE Plasma 5 created by the KDE Community. It is based on Qt 6 and KDE Frameworks 6 and brings many changes and improvements over previous versions. For Fedora Linux, the transition to KDE Plasma 6 will also include dropping support for the X11 session entirely, leaving only Plasma Wayland as the sole offered desktop mode.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6

And plenty of endusers WILL be adding it back cause I’m willing to bet Wayland will not be ready for primetime by the time Plasma 6.0 is released. I love Plasma and KDE apps but the decision to default to Wayland is a HUGE mistake. The decision should be upto the particular distros and endusers. KDE devs time would be better spent combining the features of Activities and Virtual Desktop and disposing of one of them, cause there really is no legitimate reason to have both Activities and Virtual Desktops.

That’s exactly what this post is saying? Fedora is going to drop the support for the X11 version of KDE Plasma 6.

It’s not KDE that is dropping the support.

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Lets not take what someone said out of context cause it helps no one.

From what i understand they’re not dropping it completely, only its support.

That means you’ll see only the Plasma Wayland session available on the login screen by default, you’ll be able to install the Plasma X11 session manually from the repositories (and lose support for reporting bugs), and you will need to be testing your bugs on the Plasma Wayland session before those can be reported on their issue tracker.

Apparently they are indeed planning to drop the X11 packages as well as the session.

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Which is ignorant on Fedora’s part cause rather the enduser chooses to use x11 or Wayland should be the endusers choice.

You are using a free software made by a community of volunteers in their free time, you have no right to impose what you want.

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Lets try this again. I was not making a edict, demand, or trying to impose my way on anyone or any thing. Please do not post just to puff your chest for no legitimate reason.

There’s something familiar about the writing style of @UpYours that I can’t quite Locutus locate :wink:

I might have to change distribution due to this. I do not see how wayland will be useful for me as a daily driver yet. To reiterate my pain points again and get ignored, it lacks -

  • The colour management protocol is still not finalised and there is no proper implementation for that in wayland.

  • No extensive support for configuring graphic tablet. There is a new tablet settings kcm but they do not cover all the things that can currently have to configure a tablet on X. On X even if the GUI doesn’t offer me a way there is a cli utility which is absent on wayland.

  • No proper support for creative apps mainly krita under wayland. Even if it is forced to run via xwayland there are glitches and crashes.

I hope other ditros do not follow suit or I think a lot of professional artists will be on windows soon. 3 cheers for year of linux desktop, wayland does run vim and cli without any issue so there it works 100%.

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Unless I am misinterpreting this message there won’t be any x11 packages which is maintained by KDE sig team and someone from community need to maintain those packages and if someone doesn’t there will be no plasma x11 on fedora 40. Am I correct in this understanding?

Ah, I think you’re right.

I looked at the original discussion before but completely missed this:

1-a. Could they download the spin image and install with wayland, but afterwards manually install x11 and still have KDE+X11 appear as an option on the login screen?

If Xorg maintenance is dropped… likely that possibility won’t exist.

This is a bit farther than I was expecting, especially since neither kwin or plasma-desktop have flags to build without X11, but apparently Split kwin_x11 and kwin_wayland code bases (#139) · Issues · Plasma / KWin · GitLab exists.

I actually have been wanting the ability to build all of my KDE stuff without X11 for a while now, but I thought we were very far from it happening. Imagine the compile time decrease. :smiley:

I’m not sure if “ignored without empathy” is completely correct, color management is on the radar for a lot of Wayland developers (and I think spearheaded by Fedora specifically, along with HDR). It’s just a complex issue. Yes it does suck that Wayland lacks color management, but I think Fedora’s idea [of dropping X11] will accelerate the process.

@raghukamath please don’t be over dramatic. I understand that this situation sucks for you. I don’t even agree to drop the X11 session.

BUT this is not the end of the world. Some distros will support X11 for a long time. Most likely way longer than you will be on X11. Also Fedora 40 is like 6 months away, who knows maybe your issues get solved by then.
Again I understand your frustration potentially having to move away from your distro because your usecase isn’t supported, but there is no need to cry about wayland overlords.

If you haven’t already contact the devs, maybe you can help out. Afaik developing this without actually owning such hardware is difficult. By that I don’t mean you have to develop this by yourself. But maybe you can help out with testing the code, file feature request what is actually needed for your specific tablet etc…

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Oh dear. I just read this…

A distro without colour management and that super limited tablet support screams to all artists, graphists and designers that they are no longer welcome in this community.

It is so sad and infuriating to feel rejected by the Fedora KDE community in this way. I thought that I had finally found a good distro and I was happy to be able to advocate for it…

But decisions like this clearly show that we’re not important and that it’s OK to sabotage our tools and workflows. We are litteraly pushed to the exit door.

That’s why from now on I don’t want to read any more about a dev of this community crying about why there aren’t more artists, graphists or designers in the free/libre and open source movement, when it is clearly designed that way. I’ll also have to communicate why this distro is a terrible choice and put a header ‘warning’ on all my previous guides and publications on the topic.

I don’t buy the myth of “release unfinished and let the community fix it”. It’s been 14 years I see this toxic pattern and every time it just drives users away. Getting monitor calibrated and profiled is a basic necessity for me, something I could do on any distro in 2009. It hurts to see such regression.

Well, I’m done. I’ll move all the tools for my community project Pepper&Carrot to another distro. I’m in shock because it’s an unexpectedly large amount of study and work todo suddently falling on my plate, and it will have a big impact on my productivity… and thus on my delay to deliver, and thus on my income in an already difficult time.

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Welcome to openSUSE Tumbleweed, BTW. It also uses rpm, and Plasma is well maintained.

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FWIW my wife is a digital artist using Fedora KDE on Wayland with a graphics tablet and Krita, and I haven’t heard any complaints from her about it. I guess she’s not using any of the things that are missing?

Do we have a solid list anywhere of exactly what’s missing that would help artistic folks transition to Wayland? I’ve seen a lot of scattered bug reports, forum posts and complaints, but it’s never managed to come together in my mind in the form of a cohesive “here’s exactly what artists need” document.

I would be interested in helping to make this happen to the extent that I’m able.

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Hey @ngraham , thanks for replying and bravo for your work on KDE and the weekly post.

Since yesterday, I read on Wikipedia that Fedora 40 is planned for April 2024, so it is less immediate than what I thought when I wrote my reply yesterday (I probably assumed the release would be this fall). I can relativise today and put aside the feeling of emergency. Good.

Probably, I guess. How does she calibrate her monitor? What is her colorimeter? How does she apply the profile? To how many monitors? Does she calibrate a printer? a scanner? What is her color workflow if she publishes?

I could also ask question about the tablet, multimonitors setup, recording/livestreaming demo, Krita on Wayland issues, etc… Last time I tested (April/Mai?) it wasn’t possible for me to setup my tablet, my color workflow, and Krita on KDE Wayland.

I remember I was invited more than once with other artists/graphist/designers to write this type of info (or livestream meeting) on color management discussions and tablet. But right: scattered because somewhere somewhere on phabricator, or Gitlab, or on wiki, bug report, etc…

But I’m ok and ready to do it again if it is just a communication issue.

Thank you. Be sure I’m interested too to move things in the right direction.

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We did this meeting to convey what is missing

https://phabricator.kde.org/T14971
+1 to what David said, I am too open to do a meeting or any testing help or any other thing that is possible from me to make this a smooth transition rather than an abrupt one.

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I’m not a designer nor an artist, but the most obvious issue is that selecting and applying “.icc” color profile via “Plasma settings - Color Management” page isn’t fully implemented on Wayland, and it needs the usage of colormgr on terminal to add it to the target device.
See Archlinux - ICC_profiles - Wayland.