Framework becomes a KDE Patron and joins the growing list of companies and organizations that support KDE’s work and projects.
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As a community member, hoping you are open to feedback, I do not feel comfortable with this at all.
I believe you are already aware of Framework ties to people whose ideology matches that of n4zis and their “big tent” argument:
osnews com/story/143520/in-bizarre-move-framework-embraces-deeply-extremist-views/
theregister com/2025/10/14/framework_linux_controversy/
community.frame work /t/framework-supporting-far-right-racists/
When the sponsorships were announced, GNOME folks ended up refusing the money (ignore that the video is from L*nduke, he is just the only one who reported on it):
youtube com watch?v=ZqlA-V1OeqE
I would love to see the same from KDE as declining aligns more with our values KDE Community Code of Conduct - KDE Community
What about Google?
It’s true that Google and maybe other companies under patrons are just as bad or worse but it’s really not the same as accepting money from a company and CEO who explicitly allows n4zis and bigots in their community and even sponsors them for the sake of some “big tent” and n4zi bar.
Where do we draw the line in the end? Is Palantir okay too because “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism”? What about ICE in the US or ADF in Germany?
Lot’s of love,
mealynn
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For the record, we are all well aware of all these… er… incidents you are bringing up.
We researched, discussed, talked matters over with all parties, voted, and were satisfied enough to approve the patronage.
KDE is nothing unless it follows the will of its community.
And we do appreciate Framework’s support, but we ain’t in no tent, mainly because we don’t need nobody’s tent.
We’ve got our own thing going on, thank you very much. And KDE’s “thing” is making cool Free Software, giving control to users, and fostering a welcoming and safe space for members of the LGBTQ+ community, and people of all genders, creeds, ethnicities, social backgrounds, abilities, and body shapes.
Always have, always will.
If an organization (which is not made up of nazties, by the way) wants to give us money, we’ll take it and use it to further those principles. Better us than them—“them”, being all those nazties, in case that were not clear enough.
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Framework sponsors a lot of open-source projects. Why is that? Does anyone know how much profit and revenue they generate? How can they afford to give away so much money? Are there any figures available on this?
Dear Paul,
I really appreciate your response as a member of the LGBTQ+ community and reassurance that KDE will stick with its values.
However, I find it difficult to believe that everyone who was involved shares the same opinions when, and I’ll quote the blog post, the CEO who said that a n4zi tent is acceptable is being somewhat praised and also acts as a big ad for framework and confirms some willingness on furthering the relationship you are establishing:
“KDE is extremely popular in the Framework community, and we’re excited to help support KDE’s efforts to make the best possible Linux desktop.” says Nirav Patel, Founder of Framework.
“I am excited to see Framework become a KDE Patron,” says Aleix Pol, President of KDE e.V.. “It’s a good continuation to our collaboration with different hardware manufacturers and distributors to ensure we can deliver systems to our users with an experience up to our expectations. Furthermore, Framework’s commitment to repairability strongly aligns with our values and is vital for building a more sustainable industry.”
You could have really skipped all of these and quietly accepted the money. Instead the last paragraph makes me feel even more like screaming into a void…
If an organization (which is not made up of nazties, by the way)
* but is totally fine with n4zis and bigots in their community
wants to give us money, we’ll take it and use it to further those principles
as I said in my other message, where do you draw the line? Anduril has some very talented people working for them but it’s a “palantir-lite” weapons manufacturer. I can’t say “it’s made up of n4zis” but I also can’t say you should take their money. NixOS and the Nix community put their beliefs in that matter above money.
Is 10k/year really worth compromising on how marginalized members of the community feel on contributing and supporting KDE?
Please consider this as some suggestion you can discard instantly if you want, but I urge you to decline this money and do another fundraiser instead. I and hopefully many other members of the community that are uncomfortable with the n4zi tent, will be more than willing to contribute double or triple our regular donations to the project.
I really appreciate you taking the time to read and reply to this, even if it sounds stupid to refuse money to some,
mealynn
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The internet will be the internet. I think framework is a fantastic company. I’ve personally met Nirav Patel at Open Sauce a few years ago and hes a super cool guy. So I think this is great.
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I don’t think it’s fair to call genuine concerns on sponsors being antithetical to the community’s values as “the internet will be the internet”. Some of us are being affected by the ideologies such companies are festering and don’t want to see a community we are invested in, walk backwards after huge leaps in advocacy such as KDE for Activists - KDE Community, for a sum as little as 10k, compared to what the fundraisers and other events generate.
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The KDE Board, or I, or indeed any given individual within the community cannot decline the money, because this was decided by vote among the members of the KDE e.V. association. These are the 150 or so people who are so invested in KDE, they bother to register as associates, attend and vote in the general assemblies, offer themselves as members of the Board (a thankless, tedious unpaid task), and so on.
Having done their research and concluded the company was not associated with nazties, the e.V. members voted overwhelmingly for accepting Framework as a patron. The only impediment to having them on as patrons would be the blowback from the Internet.
But, the same way we do not let patrons sway KDE’s decisions just because they are donating to us, we do not let pressure from the Internet influence our decisions either, especially if it is more based on opinion than facts.
as I said in my other message, where do you draw the line? Anduril has some very talented people working for them but it’s a “palantir-lite” weapons manufacturer. I can’t say “it’s made up of n4zis” but I also can’t say you should take their money. NixOS and the Nix community put their beliefs in that matter above money.
But this is the slippery-slope fallacy 101. One could counter with where do you draw the line on the other side? What kind of purity test would a person or organisation have to pass to be allowed to donate to KDE?
Framework once did something ill-informed (which they rectified later) and a CEO said something dumb—like that never happened before. Should the FLOSS community marginalise them forever?
From a pragmatic point of view, would this not push them into the the nazties corner more than anything else? Is this what we want?
Is 10k/year really worth compromising on how marginalized members of the community feel on contributing and supporting KDE?
Again we are in slippery-slope territory. As I have said before, patrons donate for their own reasons. One of them is not to gain influence over KDE, because they don’t. Anyone who concludes that, because we accept a donation from an organisation they consider dodgy, KDE will become dodgy is ignorant of the inner workings of KDE.
Rest assured that KDE is and will continue to be welcoming and accepting of people of the LGBTQ+ community, all genders, creeds, ethnicities, social backgrounds, abilities, and body shapes.
(Note we do not include people of all ideologies in that list. As you rightly point out elsewhere, there are ideologies which are antithetical with our ethos).
Indeed, many of our most celebrated members belong to what you call “marginalized” communities (we just call them “John”, “Jack”, “Mary”, and “Eunice”) and have prominent roles within KDE. “They” are us, something you can check for yourself watching videos from Akademy, for example.
The point is that that is not going to change.
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The "big-tent” is a concept divorced from reality.
The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
I would say following the code of conduct and other community guidelines shouldn’t be treated as a “purity test”. This is the CEO saying this, not a random employee, not a random community member, but the person leading the company.
Could you point me to the rectification? From what’s been said and done in public, I believe the GNOME folks tried to contact Nirav Patel to allow him to correct this and he refused. Can you ask them internally to confirm or deny this?
Wouldn’t the slippery-slope fallacy apply on this too? Do we accept everyone just so they don’t do double the fascism?
Which is not something I claimed. My issue is that now they have a big AD banner in all KDE websites. kde org/code-of-conduct/ "Don’t be a n4zi, anyway we are sponsored by the company that thinks n4zism is alright, buy their product!* Doesn’t it look weird to you?
Well, I don’t feel that welcomed anymore. And now my posts are getting flagged… great.
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I am rejecting the flags. You have been nothing but polite and understanding. If anything, other should learn of how to conduct a civil conversation.
Edit: Maybe stop including links in your posts. They tripped an overzealous moderation bot. Nobody (as in “no person”) is flagging your posts.
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I believe it would benefit you to listen (really listen) to Pink Floyd’s ‘Lost For Words‘ (Track 11 on The Division Bell), it stands as a warning against exactly the kind of thinking you espouse here.
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I would say following the code of conduct and other community guidelines shouldn’t be treated as a “purity test”. This is the CEO saying this,
Saying what?
not a random employee, not a random community member, but the person leading the company.
Neither Framework as a company, nor its CEO violated KDE’s CoC as far as we know.
Could you point me to the rectification?
They are not sponsoring DHH in any shape or form anymore.
From what’s been said and done in public, I believe the GNOME folks tried to contact Nirav Patel to allow him to correct this and he refused. Can you ask them internally to confirm or deny this?
Sorry, no can do. KDE does not intervene in or question other projects policies or decisions.
Do we accept everyone just so they don’t do double the fascism?
No. But not rejecting out off hand those that have not doubled to fascism is a decent start, don’t you think? If that sounds like a low bar, gatekeeping Free technology is not something we want to do.
My issue is that now they have a big AD banner in all KDE websites. kde org/code-of-conduct/ "Don’t be a n4zi, anyway we are sponsored by the company that thinks n4zism is alright, buy their product!* Doesn’t it look weird to you?
They have a small logo at the bottom of our pages. Less than half of visitors ever scroll down to the bottom that far. Even those that do and actually notice the tiny logo will find it is not even cllckable.
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Actually, it’s exactly ‘the internet being the internet’.
Someone decides some interpretation of events is just A Fact, and then rails on everyone else’s ethics as if that fact were indisputable. It’s precisely what internet discussion forums a full of, unfortunately.
This is not a case of Framework sponsoring Nazis. It’s not a case of Framework actually committing a crime, or doing anything factually verifiable. It’s some set of journalists’ interpretations of some other people’s writing and reporting.
The CEO responded too glibly to the observation of links to a person who holds the sort of casual racist view my Grandparents had, and a community who are excessively ‘schoolboyish’ and not as welcoming as they should be. Both of which oversights have been rectified.
What people disagree on is not the ethics - should we accept money from support Far-Right sympathisers - it is the facts - are Framework Far-Right sympathisers.
As was pointed out above, pretending the issue is about ethics when it actually about competing narratives is precisely what ‘the internet’ does, especially on these sorts of topics.
KDE are a software company. Not a religion. There’s no need to excommunicate heretics.
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As a Framework Laptop 13 owner I’m happy to see this happen.
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Neither. A non-profit association.
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I am locking this thread, as people who want to inject their own brand of far right politics into the discussion think they have an ally in me.
News Flash: You don’t.
This is outrageous. After one post complaining about the polarising effects of internet forums these days and another post stating they’re happy with Framework, You’ve decided to accuse those involved of being ‘Far-Right’, and then lock the thread so no-one has any right of reply. I would be hard to come up with a better example of what I was talking about. Every one who disagrees with you must instantly be ‘Far-Right’ (or Far-Left) - polarise to the extremes - make sure everyone is fighting. It’s sad.
Paul was referring to a post only moderators can see for now.
Your posting was fine 
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Sorry. Not your post. I had to remove the very offensive one as it violated our CoC.
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