I have started a petition on change.org Petition · Urge kde.org to support alternative init systems - Vereinigtes Königreich · Change.org regarding dropping support for no systemd init systems in future releases of kde.. This is bad for kde and bad for Linux users
First, you don’t need to start a petition for that. Just justifying the reasons in a bug report/this thread is enough to make devs consider it.
Second, you haven’t provided any reason why this is bad of KDE and Linux, nor have you provided the benefits of supporting other init systems.
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The post title and description read as the exact opposite of the petition, or, at least, when I read it I thought you were advocating for dropping support for no systemd init systems…
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Do you have any reference about this “recent decision” to only support systemd?
Adriaan de Groot blogs quite regularly on running KDE Plasma on FreeBSD which is almost certainly not using systemd as its init process.
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I will be VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY BLUNT and that is that Change.org is not meant for this kind of CRAP. It is meant for petitions that call for POLITICAL change. While I agree Plasma should be able to be used with other Init systems Change.org is not the place for your ridiculous petition. As @dphaldes said create a feature request bug report, list your reasons in it and in this thread.
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I have used Slackware Linux for nearly 30 years starting in 1999 and the first desktop I used was kde.. Slackware is going just as strong as ever with a large amount of user opting for kde. 1st, the sysvinit system yes it is simple but very robust and light weight. I have only ever had failed boots or crashed due to user error not sysvinit faults. I realise it lacks full gui’s but has terminal based ncurses UI that are easy to use. Configuration & control via rc scripts some simple other very complex, being bash based give’s access to the bash scripting language providing a huge amount of options and setups. Providing a very robust and secure startup providing a very small attack surface. More recent forms djb daemontools, upstart, initng, rund, procd, openrc have solved the problems of paralysation and dependency issues that initd has.
Were I work 85% of the issues coming into our support team are systemd related, from small frustrations to complete workstation lock outs. I run the server side of things again the main problems occur with 2 redhat servers largely systemd related. Our 5 Slackware servers have 99.99% uptime with 1 server at 5years 96days and 12hours uptime all without a single crash and runs a huge company database. I think comparisons to the Linux kernel are rubbish as Linus would toss large amounts of the systemd code out siting bad design, bugs and bad programming as his reasons. The biggest problem becoming dependant on a very blocked system is stifling the creativity of software developers when trying to develop new desktop environments and software. Taking things down the MS Windows route and look how that’s going as more people swap to either Android based devices or Linux. World wide adoption either due to economic or security concerns with contemporary options is growing quickly.
On a sad not a large amount of Linux distributions are rapidly making the only difference between them being graphics/decoration of there settings gui’s window manager decorations and desktop backgrounds a very bad thing in my mind.
Finally the biggest issue is user choice I love the level of choice and recently was one of the first on Slackware to migrate fully to xfce on Wayland. Being a very exciting chance to gain the benefits of Wayland via labwc xfce4. Being active in testing and influencing the setup of xfce4’s port to Wayland providing feedback from the benefit of daily use.. And still doing so.
And making sure they kept the option to enable both systemd and init based systems to use xfce4, when it would have been easier to go the systemd only route. They recognised the need to keep all options open and allow as many users as possible to use xfce4.
Thank you for you reply and I have answered your questions from the heart and being honest .
I think that a petition is the best option as it gives the most people a simple way to show there support to keep non systemd distro’s able to use kde in the future. The assumption that non systemd distribution’s are no longer relevant is a mistake, as I think we will see as the beast grows to much the wheels will start to fall off the waggon.
What is the source for this?
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That’s pure bs. A petition is not necessary by any stretch of the imagination. And again Change.org is not the place for this type of petition if you must create one.
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While you and some others want to use anything but systemd, over the years I’ve seen distro developers choosing it (Ubuntu being the latest by discontinuing Upstart), clearly there’s a reason for that.
Systemd has been around for 15 years, if the wheels were going to fall off, I think we would be seeing that now.
Lastly, even if KDE were to only officially support systemd, that is their choice too. I mean were not dealing with a billion dollar corporation with near unlimited funds to support all kinds of use cases.
I think the premise is false. KDE develops software that runs on a variety of distributions, many of which use systemd; but some developers and users prefer alternative init systems.
I can’t find any hint that KDE advocates against systemd… though it is possible to find limitations with some KDE software which might leverage systemd.
When making a post, just my humble and often unpopular - even unfriendly opinion here…
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Provide context, and verifiable / relevant sources.
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Supply relevant information to support your claim.
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Understand that simply stating ‘there’s a problem with the systemd init system’ is ineffective and inflammatory (hence the string of replies to your topic here).
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If you have identified real issues, then find solutions that work for you and then post about them.
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If you encounter problems, then do the same.
Harsh and unproductive accusations (i.e. kde.org only supports systemd init systems) are not welcomed - and some people might find them to be offensive.
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Looks like this originated from a thread on the LinuxQuestions Slackware forum and it’s actually about plasma-login.
There’s multiple misconceptions involved here:
- plasma-login is a login manager that can be replaced, not an unreplaceable Plasma component or Plasma itself
- Plasma itself uses systemd features sometimes (the DE’s systemd startup, autogenerated services for autostart applications, running applications from the menu in scopes, etc) when systemd is available, providing fallback behavior for other systems
- DE startup for example fallbacks to systemd-agnostic startup for systems like FreeBSD
The premise of the petition is just not a thing.
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Right, so the thread is pointless and waste of everybody’s time. Locking.
OP, please do your due diligence next time.
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