Make one system - Virtual Desktop or Activities

I have been using Virtual Desktops and Activities in each major versions of KDE from KDE3 to KDE6. I understand how confusing this is to old and new users, and here’s why:

Virtual Desktops

  • Can place different windows on different desktops
  • Place an icon or change the wallpaper this changes all virtual desktops
  • Can Spin things around with a nice desktop cube

Activities

  • Can place windows in different Activities
  • Can have per activity different desktop icons, application dashboard favorites, and different wall papers
  • No nice spinning Activities cube

For a casual KDE user, this must be confusing.

Solution: One system to rule them all and in the darkness bind them…

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witchery!

i would rather see activities more fully fleshed out with each having their own virtual desktop settings… some activities might need more virtual desktops, some might need virtual desktops to go right to left, while some might be better suited to top to bottom.

don’t break virtual desktops trying to integrate them in to activities, just make activities more fully like separate users.

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There’s been a lot of discussion about this in other places, a couple I remember right off:

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The best solution would be to have separate activities per virtual desktop.

Then each virtual desktop could have multiple activities with icons / wallpapers etc customized to that specific virtual desktop.

Then I believe all possibilities are covered, until someone points out a corner case :wink:

i think you have your truduckin inside out.

activities are more like separate logins, each with their own set of virtual desktops.

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activities are more like separate logins, each with their own set of virtual desktops.

That is more or less also how I use both together.

The activity defines a higher level context, e.g. one for each project I am working on.
The virtual desktop defines a task with that other context, e.g. email, coding, chatting

For example KMail is always on desktop 2, regardless of activity, desktop 4 has the IDE or editor for the respective project, etc.

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Interesting, does this really work. I’m going to test this right now…
I will try to set up as follows:
Activity → Private
Virtual Desktop 1 : KMail
Virtual Desktop 2 : Netflix /YouTube
Activity → Work Company 1
Virtual Desktop 1 : Gmail
Virtual Desktop 2 : Google Drive / login to remote server
Virtual Desktop 3 : Git Android Studio Coding

Each Activity should have their own specific Wallpaper / Icon / Favorites. I will be impressed if this can be setup. :+1:t2:

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The number of virtual desktop is the same for all activities but you can indeed place different applications or have different background, type of desktop (e.g. with icons), etc.

I also have a Firefox profile for each activity so each remembers its project specific windows, tabs, logins, etc.

So far I am launching Firefox manually in each activity as I haven’t had time yet to check if the activity name could possibly be passed as a command line argument.

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Activities is like having a 2nd PC, why on earth ditch it. Maybe it needs more user awareness (advertise the benefits of it) but removing it? Hell no. More like further improving it.

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be prepared to be disappointed… as the current state of activities all use the same workspace settings.

but if you create a separate user you can have different workspace settings.

activities seems to be trying to bridge that gap with an easy way to switch “heads” without having to relog… but it’s not there yet.

For what it’s worth, the links up above seem to indicate that the impetus to change at the time wasn’t because not enough users were aware of the existing feature, but that there was:

  • Questionable code sustainability
  • Low developer availability / interest
  • An unclear “story” for users about what Activities are, how to use them effectively, and how to avoid pitfalls

I don’t know if those have changed in the past ~three years.

Personal opinion / rant below

However, my personal bias would be that presenting the legendary “average user”* with the current state of Activities would leave them feeling more confused and skeptical of how well KDE software fits their needs, than it would leave them feeling empowered and effective as users of their devices.

*Defined here as, in the future, “the general public buyer of a lower-mid-tier laptop model, sitting in their local consumer electronics store, that came pre-loaded with KDE Linux”

Setting aside hypothetical average users - I think I’m a decently competent desktop computing user, and I just can’t quite “get” how Activities work. I barely ever use Virtual Desktops, even, so maybe I’m not the target market anyway. Nobody I know in real life uses Virtual Desktops either, so I’ve never had a good old in-person sitdown to see and talk with someone about how they get their work done with that kind of setup.

If there’s a motivated group of developers with time to spare that isn’t currently being contributed to KDE (so it’s not a debate of “taking time away” from more widely-used, impactful code), and who are wanting to define Activities really well, build it to be the best that it can be, and then do the less glorious work for years afterward of maintaining it alongside the pace of the rest of the community’s projects, then awesome. But from the outside, it seems like there would have to be some sort of “influx” like that for the feature to get to where its fans would like to see it.

My personal opinion, so please take or leave that however anyone wishes :slight_smile:

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This post has created a bit feedback - nice to see…

I have tried out using activities with virtual desktops as described in post #7 and all I can say is it’s messy. My original post is really saying why both Virtual Desktops and Activities - Just pick one.

Personally I would choose Virtual Desktops and add a couple of refinements - Different wallpapers per desktop and different Icons on each desktop. Do not have different favicons in the menu - this gets annoying.

From this discussion it was mentioned that activities are like logging in as a different user. So, why not create a new account and login as a different user. This would simplify things considerably.

For myself having different Virtual Desktops for work and play is more than sufficient and makes it easy to swap between the 2 worlds. Maybe this is too easy, and to make it harder having 2 accounts for work and play is the solution !

One of the main differences between Virtual Desktops and Activities is that the former are mostly a very convenient way of showing/hiding a set of windows together while the latter are different “states” your computer is in.

Plasma components and applications can query that state and change their behavior appropriately.

For example you can associate different power settings with activities, so when you switch the behavior of screen blanking, automatic suspend and such will take this into account.

On my laptop my normal power settings for “on battery power” are to turn off the screen after a relatively short period of inactivity and go to suspend after a couple of minutes.

I have an activity called “presentation” which disables this as I might be talking about something on screen or on a second device/flipchart/whiteboard for several minutes longer than any of these timeouts.

If you have your background configured to show files you can configure a different folder for each activity.

It is unfortunately not so easy to find which programs have the capability to react to activities, so at this point it is mostly a power user thing for people who explore and specifically look for these options.

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I like activities for things like power settings, Eg. when on battery power. Activities need some work to make them easier, more obvious and when / where to use them.

Activities and Virtual Desktop’s blur together for me, and I believe for new users also.

I love KDE being so configurable, it’s one of its best features.
If things are too configurable then it turns to chaos.

Just an idea: Why not have Activities being controlled by Virtual Desktop switching as well as a shortcut key binding. Let’s discuss…

Activities needs a 5-second elevator pitch, or else it’ll remain an expert-nerd-only feature even if it gets lots of attention and dev time.

Here’s my proposal:

Activities let you configure your apps and Plasma differently in each activity, while preserving access to the same set of files.

Under the hood, each activity would have completely separate ~/.config/, ~/.local/share/, ~/.local/state/ folders, and apps launched in each activity would look in activity-specific versions of those folders.

You could also configure the system to make individual apps use a global settings store, rather than a per-activity one.

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this is as close to switching “heads” as you can get without logging in as a separate user.

for the activity configuration page you could have check boxes that enabled these by default but if you unchecked them they would revert to the main activity (global) settings.

Separate Wallpaper settings
Separate Desktop folders
Separate Virtual Desktops
Separate Panel configurations
etc

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This is hard to decide on for the best solution for all users and use cases. For desktop usability with highly configurable options around just this area of Virtual Desktops and Activities is most likely far harder deciding what is best than the coding.

This is a matrix:

Virtual Desktops: I split things up for “tasks” like General, Email &/ Chat, Movies & YouTube, and Work.

Activities: Things like Presenting, Working, Relaxing etc are any number of “tasks” within each Activity

Let’s not even think about Multi-Monitor set ups or this will turn into a Rubik’s Cube :rofl:

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i tend to use virtual desktops as just more desktop area for the windows i have open even tho i have 2 monitors… when a collection of open windows start orbit a specific task, that’s when i start thinking about moving them to their own activity to reduce the clutter.

to use the old real world desktop metaphor… activities are those piles of papers on the corner of my desktop like “taxes” where i need to bear down and not be distracted by every day stuff.

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Let’s not even think about Multi-Monitor set ups or this will turn into a Rubik’s Cube :rofl:

Normal cube, but yes :slight_smile:

I have three monitors, 6 virtual desktops and 4 activities :see_no_evil:

But I rarely have more than two windows per desktop that way, usually even just one

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In addition, activities also need a ‘visual elevator pitch’, that instantly explains how activities and virtual desktops relate to one another. Or else users won’t be able to form a mental model, that helps them understand it’s value and potential.

I propose that Overview should include activities to achieve the above:

By including activities in the Overview, we will help users to form a very basic mental model of activities and how they differ from virtual desktops (“a way to group virtual desktops”). Once they have a basic mental model in place, and are able to navigate between activities and virtual desktops without getting lost, they can start to explore the deeper aspects of activities.

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