I came from Windows 10/ms office.
This made me work with ribbon witch i feelt was easy to use not over velming but at the same time every comand existed in the menu so i dont ned to look around or right to use a function.
I think it would be a good for kde to have a standard ribbon that applications can use so more apps use and it makes the work easyer and alitetl bit more like my Windows 10 experience.
// Simon
As an option perhaps but as the default hell bleep bleep bleep no. The ribbon was and still is one of hundreds of reasons why people leave WinBLOWS.
Itās a no from me, sorry. The āribbonā wastes vertical space that could be used for the rest of the UI.
make it more like my Windows 10 experience
You may read this: Linux is NOT Windows
libre office already has this in View > User interface.. > tabbed toolbar
i donāt see why anyone would need this UX across all of the desktop.
thatās a serious no from me as well.
What you are suggesting is to prioritise accessiblity over functionality - a laudible aim.
LibreOffice has introduced some alternatives, like Notebookbar and tabbed amongst other options - so this could be useful in Calligra Suite.
However, we have many keyboard shortcuts - for quick actions - and mostly we prefer more compact menus where they are not too complicatedā¦ and we also have Customizable Toolbars (which can thankfully be hidden; here, for example, is Konsole:
Linux also has an emphasis on choice - with optional and (where practical) editable UI modes as well as keyboard shortcuts.
So Iāll agree that a contextual tabbed/ribbon layout could be useful for some things - perhaps Calligra (Words, Sheets, Stage) and KMyMoney, probably Krita and KDenlive, not sure about KDE Partition Manager, Okularās annotation would benefit.
Overall, Iād go hybrid - I like LibreOffice and find it easier to work with than MS Office. I think Dolphin could benefit, but I wouldnāt use it, because my Dolphin looks quite a lot like my Konsole - I donāt need icons to switch Ctrl 1 ā3 for display modes, for instance, or for creating new folders or tabsā¦ or splits.
Dolphin works amazingly well with minimal clicking - and not many icons would be needed for most people who donāt need everything on display.
Konsole would have the same problem - with a dozen options for splitting, youād have many icons laid out - so practically this is why many applications tend to diverge.
For this reason, I prefer to keep a tight grip on the Traditional - This means primarily a normal Window menu, accessible via Alt (Usually toggled with Ctrl_M)ā¦ and Iām warming up to the F10 menu (also works with Firefox now).
For example, in Dolphin (the one with no menus or icons - is it useable?) I can hit F10 to get the āhamburger menuā; with no hamburger. To get the āregularā menu I can press arrow UP (this goes to āMoreā at the bottom of the menu, extending to File, Edit, View, Go, Tools.
I think accessiblity is important, but I think people should try to discover things too - and so whilst nobody will argue that the Ribbon is a useful idea, it is not a suitable one for broad-stroke application.
Iām one of the few (?) who actually likes the ribbon, but only for MS Office, it may be useful for similar programs, but I feel itās really not needed anywhere else like a file browser or text editor.
I find a standard āold fashionedā Menu bar is a good compromise between the showing of more than necessary in a Ribbon and not showing anything and hiding it all in an hamburger menu.
What is the best genre of wallpaper image, and why is it bird photos?
cats have the internet, birds have the desktop, dogs have the smart phones.
Couldnāt it be something that explodes?
No, the ribbonās pretty good if youāre ok with the spaceā¦ itās just that not that many things you do on your desktop are going to benefit from that; I use the Compact Tabbed mode in Writer - itās great.
For sure, Linuxāers have a habit of knee-jerking anything that looks remotely Macāish or Windowish before looking at them (like those stupid 'colour circleā window decorationsā¦).
I think the Tabbed Compact is the best compromise - especially if itās editable - because those standard āold fashionedā menus can be a bit much (go play with Calc, youāll get the picture).
Takes me back to taking my mum to a restaurant - she ordered āSoup of the Dayā because she had that last week, and itās her very favourite soup.
I do recall that the menu was not of the āribbonā design, being more of the ālaminated printoutā variety.
The best Genre of wallpaper - dark, light, bird, landscape, tilt-shift - all beaten by the āFavouritesā folder.
Thatās my favourite Genre.
You know, Iām going to try it out for a while in Calc and Writer. I might get used to this!
On average that may be true, but I can tell you for a fact that in this case thatās not whatās happening. When Windows introduced the ribbon in Office most of didnāt have an issue with it cause it actually worked for office, but When they decided that that had gone so well that they chose to add it to Windows Explore over 80% of their user base cried foul. It was one thing to have the ribbon on an app that most of us used full screen, but to add it to a app most of us use windowed to save desktop space to run other task was something else entirely different. The saving grace is tweak tools new and old found a way to restore the previous way.
I also like the ribbon. Back at my old job at a translation agency that was kind of a requirement when we started using LibreOffice, itās more effective for straightforward workflows than the menu bar with an overwhelming toolbar.
Functionally itās just a tab bar for toolbar controls, itās not a particularly unique control. There could be a Kirigami / Kirigami Addons control for this, in case application developers would like to use it in their own apps.
(Thatās how it works, itās not really a matter of āhey, letās use this design choice everywhere!ā as people are thinking of in this thread)
The suggestion was for it to be use in Dolphin by default. VERY BAD idea. A toggle for it yes, but on by default simply no. There have already been more than a few design changes foisted on peeps that should of been toggles.
I would say it would be a bad idea as a default look. But as a alternate look for menubar, it could look quite well.
Maybe an option āshow the menu bar as a ribbon menuā in dolphin or another app with a menubarā¦
Idk how it will look like but that could be fine as a proof of concept.
Well, that might be your experience with MS/Office but it sure hasnāt been mine. From day 1 I hated it so much. I could never find a menu item it that horrible system, then you need to open that tab and search to find out it isnāt there, then the next tab and when you were lucky you found it there.
On June 6 (yes D-Day) of this year I closed down the last Windows computer in my life since that was the last day I worked, I am retired now. No Windows stuff in my Linux, not now, not ever.
You are also dating yourself as a fossil (Iām over 60, but not yet turned to concreteā¦) who possibly experienced early softwares like Word Perfect before we had all the bloat of the desktop, the toolbars with iconsā¦ so that you would see accelerators and activate (Alt_F for file, etc).
Then you get a long dropdown menu - often with treesā¦ so a dozen different āsplitā commands go off from a āSplit >ā that requires careful navigation - and you quickly remember, or set new shortcuts, for any frequently used items thereā¦ or you move that specific item to a toolbar for quick access.
But given that there are SOOOO MANY different menus and trees, wouldnāt it be better to have a separate menu for those? Thatās where the Ribbon idea comes in - it brings in TABS to the toolbar, so you can click or use a shortcut to activate View tab, and see the different options there.
When thinking about these issues, you have to take care to be logical and impartial. Ignore any affiliation with any historical operating system.
You must also cater for different kinds of users - some learn to use keyboards, others never do - they ALWAYS need an icon to click, however ridiculous or inefficient that is. When I used mouse gestures on X11, I could do more things than you can think of - forget having to remember a hundred keyboard shortcuts, I can draw a particular shaped arrow to toggle maximising a window only horizontally, or verticallyā¦ to open a window, close it, open new tabs, re-open closed tabs, re-open closed windows. Everything you can do with shortcuts, and a lot of things youād never remember shortcuts forā¦ toggle window decorations, go to desktop 3, take this window to Desktop 3, SEND this window to desktop 3ā¦ show all desktops/windowsā¦
Itās difficult NOT to look down on other people who donāt understand MY way of doing things, or understanding WHY itās so obviously betterā¦ This becomes truer the longer you use a particular system. This is why Windows users cry foul when they want to get rid of middle-click paste because it messes up their scrollingā¦
So what we need to do is look at the ideas for tabbed toolbars/grouped toolbars and WITHOUT LOSING the traditional menu system (itās always thrown in at the end of F10 menus for applications) find other ways of working.
What you need to do is to come up with a very specific incident, a precise example, where you had a problem with using the Ribbon vs another variation.
Will you cater for NEW USERS? Will you cater for people who used Windows?
So letās get some text up here, hmmm so I can see Format (Alt_o) Character (h) which opens a multi-tab dialogā¦ so you can manually pick your font/size/colour.
Same for Paragraph spacing - Format - paragraphā¦
There is a pain point here, with overwhelmingly long menu dropdowns, and then nested menusā¦ and quite often the tools are disconnected.
You go to āHomeā tab - you can visually pick font/size/colour AND paragraph spacing from thereā¦ and the menu doesnāt get cluttered up with too many other options (So make this editable - you can fully design and customise your icons layout across tabs).
Thereās NO DOUBT that the Ribbon makes things more discoverable by grouping things visibly and labels reduce the guesswork. As an experienced user, just as a noob must accept, Contextual tabs are more efficient for such an incredibly complicated task.
For Keyboard Ninjas, thereās no comparisonā¦ Alt_F for file, or Alt_o_p for paragraph - so much easier (IF you already know where youāre looking).
What I love about OLD style menus:
We also see other options - if oneās interesting, you can then go to keyboard shortcuts and fix your lack of accelerator for that itemā¦
Really efficient BUT more work to set up.
This is especially true with Kate editor - have you ANY idea how many different variations on the āsplitā icon you can specify in the keyboard shortcuts?
With a ribbon, thatād be simpler.
And the final comment - Software should be designed with a āuseable with zero configurationā optionā¦ without losing too many useful legacy features.
