UI / UX: For smoother UX, rethink the UI for transitions / dissolves

Brainstorm
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Related to my post: UI / UX: Consistent terminology with other editing tools - Dissolves vs. Mixes

A lot of Non-Linear Editors (NLE) do not make a distinction between audio and video-dissolves. Programmatically they probably are a very different animal, from a user perspective its a “thing” that you can put on a cut, which makes it blend from clip A to clip B. Regardless if Clip A is an audio clip or a video clip.

This is how they should be handled in the GUI: The window that contains the transitions should contain audio and video transitions, each in their own hierarchy.

As a side note: the transitions tab should be debloated. Get rid of all those “custom transitions”, especially the “shape transitions”, put them under a “Artistic Transitions” folder or any other solution that takes them out of view. Very little people use them, they clutter the gui and steal screen estate. The transition which is used 99% of the time is the cross dissolve, both on audio and video. It should be the standard. It should have its own keyboard shortcut. IMHO the default length should be 12frames, centered on cut but of course it should be user-adjustable.

From a usability perspective it should be possible to select a cut (aka the edge or little line between adjacent Clip A and Clip B), to do something with it IN GENERAL. For example invoke the trim mode or add transitions. So, to add a dissolve, select the cut, then press the Keyboard shortcut, drag & drop a transition from the transition presets window, get right click / context menu - or press the “Mixes” button which should be renamed to Dissolve or Transition. If you follow the Avid UI logic, then there will be a little window asking you if you want to adjust the length / starting point / type of dissolve. Pressing enter / or “OK” button will confirm and apply the transition.

The UI like it is right now doesnt make sense: With two Clips, Clip A and Clip B, selecting either Clip, pressing the mixes button adds a transition between the clips. If you have three clips, Clip A, Clip B and Clip C, you select Clip B and press “Mixes” Button NOTHING happens. Also you cannot select the cut at the moment. Its absolutely counterintuitive where to find them, how to use them and even the naming is completely different than in other NLE so you wont even find the functionality if you search for it.

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That seems like a mistake. I’m pretty sure even old school linear editors didn’t ever confuse these two things or think them alike.

Also logically, functionally, and operationally …

As a user, I can pretty confidently say that’s not my perspective.

Audio and video mixing are very different things, and assuming they should always be done in the same way, at the same rate, in the same place is very problematically limiting - even before you try to solve the problem of finding some false equivalences between the different techniques for each.

And what makes you think there aren’t huge numbers of very little people using them?

Even in a world where 240fps footage is something that even relatively low end cameras can comfortably shoot now?

You sound angry that your new tool does things differently from your old tool, and that it doesn’t default out-of-the-box to the simplistic ways you did things in your old tool. And that you haven’t yet found the patience to explore it for what it is and open yourself to learning how it works and the myriad ways every user can customise parts of it to best suit their own personal workflows, however basic or complex they might be.

I don’t want to discourage anyone from sharing experience and ideas that could improve things for everyone - and it sounds like you’ve tried to use a number of NLEs already and still haven’t found one you like yet - so if we made kdenlive Just Like Them, then it seems like a pretty safe bet you wouldn’t like it either. You tried it because you hope it’s different. And a lot of people seem to agree that it is in some very good ways.

The best advice I can offer, is take a deep breath and some time to try and understand why it does the things it does differently differently. Then if you hit stumbling blocks more real than “I didn’t start by reading, or at least skimming, the documentation, and searching for words from my old tools didn’t help”, after some time getting basically proficient with it - we can have some actually productive conversations on improving actual sticking points.

I’m sure you have some hard learned lessons of your own to share with us, but “you should change everything” isn’t a very practically useful place to start from.

2 Likes
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I must admit it’s really hard to even begin a conversation with this attitude.

What I do: report on how the market leading NLE handle UI logic.

What you do: report on how you personally like things to be and use it as an argument why things should not be changed.

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Look, as a member of the team, I can tell you that you also need to check your attitude. I felt that on matrix when we were talking. You were very rude to Massimo, for example, that was just trying to explain to you the state of development. We don’t need saviors, we need team players. As I told you, we are open to suggestions, and what you said is not something we are against, we had even already considered some of your points. But you must understand we are a VERY small team. So please be patient and understand the situation. Things will happen but they can’t be done instantly.

EDIT: there is also a plan to start improving the transitions: SoK/Ideas/2025 - KDE Community Wiki

Cheers and happy new year

1 Like
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My main take away - so far - is: I voice my observations in terms of usability of KDEnlive and I get very lengthy explanations (also from massimo):

  • why things are the way they are
  • why it’s problematic to change them
  • why things are good the way they are
  • why things shouldn’t be changed

Maybe it was a misperception from my side, but it didn’t feel like a very open-minded atmosphere to discuss UI enhancements.

It’s great to hear that some of the points resonated with you and I am happy to outline more observations.

As I mentioned several times, I don’t think that KDEnlive is lacking ANY functionality to be a great NLE already, it’s lacking the user experience to be a great NLE.

I can understand that people have been using KDEnlive exclusively for years and they got used to it’s quirks, which might make them a little blind to the fact that a lot of things are not very logical in KDEnlive or could be more consistent, easier to understand intuitively etc.

Thats understandable and it will be a pain for those “experts” if things are changed. That’s lies in the nature of “changes”.

I do think that I am in a position to see UI aspects in a more abstract way then a hard core KDEnlive fan. As a professional freelance editor, NLE software has been tools I have been using for 3 decades. Since my clients each came with their preferred tool, I needed to know and use them all. I can see the advantages and disadvantages in each of them and I don’t belong to any group of “fanboys” of either. There are clever UI decisions in all of the major NLE (Premiere, Resolve and Avid Media composer) and these companies are doing extensive usability studies and work with professionals from the area. Furthermore, there are things they all handle the same way, because it simply makes sense (like 3 Point Editing, Trim Modes, J-K-L as playback shuttle keys etc.pp.) So I think it would be wise for KDEnlive to take inspirations from the best UI ideas of each of these tools.

So, do I really need to know on which software library KDEnlives media engine is built on, to make a remark that using “Stabilize” on source clips doesn’t really make sense? I don’t think so.

I am happy explain in detail why a UI offering stabilization on a source clip doesn’t make sense. And then the KDEnlive experts can think, if, with the existing underlying technology, it would be possible to move stabilization from being a source-clip effect to being a timeline-clip effect. If not: so be it.

But why make it so hard and at every step again explain to me that KDEnlive does things great and the other NLE are mislead.

I am sorry if my remarks were perceived as disrespectful, that’s not how I intended them to be but that’s not how I felt I expressed them.

If being “a teamplayer” is only possible by tapping each other’s shoulders and saying “we are doing great”, then I don’t want to be teamplayer, but I definitely don’t think I am KDEnlives savior :slight_smile:

Happy New Year everyone!