The settings app should use a tree view instead of an oversized hamburger menu

[Damglador]

The current implementation of tabs in settings is bulky, slow to use and annoying.

There are 2 modes, I either have to keep the window this size for the full one:

Which is like 50% of my screen.
Or I can make the window smaller and get this abomination:

Where each time I want to see other settings, I have to reach to the top right for the «Back» button.

In both modes, to navigate I have to flick my cursor all around the left side of the window. When I look for settings/change tabs, my cursor is here:

But if I want to change tab in a group, I have to move it to the right:

To then move it back to the left because I didn’t find the setting I needed. It’s also even worse when the group is not at the top of the main list (have to move my cursor to the right and all the way to the top to change the subgroup):

And in compact mode, I can have my cursor all the way at the bottom:

And have to move it all the way to the top

Just to move it back to the bottom (to change to the next tab).

Also, there’s an issue with keyboard navigation. Guess where the selection is:

I also don’t know. Maybe it’s on the left and I can move to other settings, maybe it’s on the right and I have to press the left arrow to move it to the right to go on. The change of horizontal selection also doesn’t have any visual feedback, so I don’t even know if my left arrow press registered or not until I try moving up/down.

And it obviously wastes a lot of space

So, my suggestion - make it a tree view. For example Rider:

Concept for the settings app: The settings app should use a tree view instead of an oversized hamburger menu - #15 by Damglador

It’s compact, much easier and faster to navigate with both keyboard and mouse. And the window size doesn’t affect usability or the way you use it in general.

This issue was bothering me probably from the first time I used the settings.

Edit: The current implementation would actually make sense if there were a lot of tabs in a group, in which case a tree view may be a bit worse. But currently there’s 2–3 tabs in a group (with the exception of the customization group), so the second sidebar always has 80%-90% of blank space.

And the horizontal space wasted on the second sidebar matters even more for tabs that have a third “sidebar”, like the network tab with the list of networks, app permissions with the lists of apps, which feel very crammed even in the window size on the screenshot.

[User110350]

it’s as much about aesthetics as it is ease of use, so it’s perfectly fine.

[skyfishgoo]

i rely on krunner to find settings more than navigating the settings GUI

a search usually takes me right to the page i need with a few exceptions.

[User110350]

Yea It’s a matter of what one’s use to. In my case It’s faster to pop open System Settings and go to the section / subsection I want. Krunner I use for finding programs and fines.

[Damglador]

I don’t think that’s an excuse to just abandon the settings app UX as it is. At least because, as I mentioned in the post itself, sometimes I just don’t know the name of the option, be it because I use Plasma for the first time or because the language I search info for is not the language my system is in.

If the GUI is there, it deserves attention even if it can be bypassed.

[DeMus]

@Damglador

To then move it back to the left because I didn’t find the setting I needed.

That’s why there is a search field on top, to make it easy to find what you need.

[Damglador]

I addressed the search thing in the comment above…

[skyfishgoo]

i think for navigating the settings, the hamburger method works and once you find what you are looking for using krunner (or the search bar) is easier to get back to it.

i’m just grateful that both ways exist.

[wodsfort]

Вітаю!I think that’s it is interesting idea,but i don`t know how it will be looks.

[Herzenschein]

Not a VDG person, but i see a few problems with using a treeview design:

• How do you tell whether clicking a top level component will open a separate page vs just open the collapsible?

• If it opens a separate page, should it be empty (I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this in some major software somewhere) or should it have content? If it should have content, should it be a top-level page or an index (like Jetbrains stuff, which is inconsistent about this)?

• If it just opens the collapsible on double click (like LibreOffice), that means the originally-top-level-page needs to turn into a separate one; how to adress the increased number of settings buttons on the sidebar?

• How do you make it usable with a touchscreen?

[the-entropyst]

The idea is worth considering. It’s fixing a UI issue and hide some clutter to systemsettings (and I believe it’s a good thing)

@Herzenschein

How do you tell whether clicking a top level component will open a separate page vs just open the collapsible?

The right thing to do is to do both IMO. When clicking a category, the previously opened tree tab closes, the selected one uncollaps and it show the top level page of the category (It’s like the current situation, just not using tree tabs)

@Herzenschein

How do you make it usable with a touchscreen?

The current design is fine for touchscreen (mostly mobile) no need to touch it. Tree tabs are only useful for desktop machines

[Damglador]

@the-entropyst

When clicking a category, the previously opened tree tab closes, the selected one uncollaps and it show the top level page of the category (It’s like the current situation, just not using tree tabs)

I had the same idea.

I don’t think a «tree view» (if it’s appropriate to call it a tree view) would be bad for touchscreens. Besides, doesn’t Plasma mobile use a different settings app?

[Marata]

Wanted to say the same as the-entropyst. I may would do it depending on size that is available on the window.

• There are situations when all 3 elements (main categories, sub-categories and settings) are visible. In this case I would just show all 3 elements.
• If you shrink it horizontal, the main category disappears. In this case I would show the tree view to give more information and allow for faster movement between categories.
• If you shrink it horizontal further, currently nothing happen. But if you want to make it phone friendly, you could collapse it another time and just show settings or the tree view.
• If you shrink it vertical (like phone on landscape), it depends if you want to keep categories and settings visible at the same time, then tree view, or if you want to fold pages, than showing categories and sub-categories together and settings alone.
• [Edit: It would also be a valid thing to think about max amount of entries, so that we do not need to scroll through 10 or more sub-menus or to make such things a setting itself → 0 is tree disabled, -1 is always enabled, 5 means with 5 or less sub-categories it shows the tree view, with 6 or more it just becomes an own column aka disabled.]

Why do I speak about phones? I think most KDE-software in general (except desktop Plasma) could be fully convergent with some minor tweaks without compromising desktop experience. And if we speak here about how to handle sub-categories, it is very close to speak about convergence of settings-application. As far as I can see, beside of folding in one way or another, there are just some minor adjustments required as minimum display size (which is bigger than needed anyway) and maybe some specific setting-pages as WLAN & Networks (horizontal scrolling is usable, but not optimal).

[Herzenschein]

@Damglador

I don’t think a «tree view» (if it’s appropriate to call it a tree view) would be bad for touchscreens. Besides, doesn’t Plasma mobile use a different settings app?

The implementation you commonly see out there like the one from Jetbrains products is.

And touch input isn’t limited to phones, it’s relatively common in laptops.

Also note the HIG: Displaying content | Developer

[Damglador]

A concept of how I imagine it

The highlight on the group entry would need to be less bright, perhaps so it better indicates what is currently selected. Perhaps the arrow should also point downwards when it’s expanded.

Only one entry should be expanded opened at a time and, as Marata suggested, entries with a lot of sub-entries probably should use the old view (like the theming settings).

[Herzenschein]

That is a list view with collapsible sections rather than a tree view (I think). You could contact the VDG to see if it makes sense to do that.

[Damglador]

Where can I do that?

[Herzenschein]

Matrix - KDE Community Wiki

[bednar]

We had this in KDE 3 days.

@Herzenschein

How do you tell whether clicking a top level component will open a separate page vs just open the collapsible?

Same as now you don’t know what you’ll get when clicking a category with an arrow. You get the first KCM in the list, which almost always is a surprise. And then there is the “colors and themes” category which actually is a hierarchy underneath…

Control center had a “null page” when an expansible category was selected.

TBH all the issues (except touchscreen) you list are IMO already there with the current settings.

[User110350]

@bednar

e had this in KDE 3 days.

No way we are going back to the hideous monstrosity of Plasma 3 like the OP wants.